Andrej Kavšek
With Milan by your side, you suddenly understand what is happening within you – you get to know yourself right to your core.
Andrej Kavšek has been in charge of development, optimisation and the consolidation of work procedures at the Sava d.d. insurance company since October 2015. Before that he was president of the board of the Tilia insurance company for eight years. Both companies are part of the Sava Re Group.
He stresses that during a time when he was employed at the Danish multinational company Danfoss – where he carried out various tasks, mostly in leadership positions – he attended numerous excellent training sessions organised by Danfoss and the Academy of Danish Multinational Companies that are required for everyone in leadership positions. The higher one is in the hierarchy of a company, the faster one must be able to adapt to changes. He emphasises that most importantly, a leader’s role is not just in making decisions but also in establishing a creative environment.
‘Therefore I imagine the leader as a neutron in the core of the atom. The larger the atom, the more neutrons are needed to maintain the stability of the core – and consequently that of the atom – through their presence, and latent and neutral actions.’
This way of thinking is what probably led him to Milan Krajnc, a physicist by education and way of thinking.
What is your experience with Milan Krajnc?
Milan is a quantum leap in comparison to other trainers who are more in favour of standard education and seminars. But at a seminar you cannot reach a level of understanding to fully grasp what is happening to you or what is happening with others. He is different and all the colleagues I have introduced him to feel the same. Some are afraid of him at first. Of course we know that fear comes from within ourselves so actually we are afraid of ourselves – not of him. The image we see in the mirror he is holds in front of us can sometimes be really scary. Many don’t find a connection with him and run away – they run before they even start working together because they have not yet reached the level necessary to be able to do this.
But you didn’t run away, you found each other?
No, I didn’t. (laughter) His method is really interesting, different. He doesn’t lecture, as is common at typical seminars, instead he helps you to recognise yourself. He enables you to get to know yourself and this is key for personal progress. There is declarative knowledge, but it is another thing altogether to internalise the knowledge and actually live it. If you only visit places where someone is giving a lecture, you quickly forget and go back to the old ways, as they say. What you learn with Milan stays with you because he lets you come to your own conclusions. In order to get there, he helps and guides you so that you don’t get side-tracked. This is something we are not used to. Usually they just tell us: “This is so and so and that is how you’re going to do things,” and we as good Slovenes dutifully obey. And most people quickly dismiss someone who ‘pesters’ them, just so they don’t have to deal with things about themselves.
What were your expectations, what did you get from Milan? In which areas did he help you?
I attended many seminars when I was working for Danfoss. We heard lectures by top psychologists and psychiatrists and participated in training sessions with them, but they always took me to the same point where I started to behave differently but I did not know why. I still didn’t know what the triggers were, why I get angry. In fact, I was taught to manage the situation rather than to manage myself. And when a similar situation escalated, it still upset me because I didn’t understand – I didn’t know – what the trigger was and I couldn’t react differently. I didn’t understand the changes that were being suggested to me, so the next time I was in such a situation I went back to the same starting point, to the beginning, [without making any progress].
A few years ago I thought I knew everything. Now I am discovering, together with Milan, what I don’t know and this is making me different. No, I didn’t have a bone marrow transplant, I just started acting differently. (Laughter) I realise now why I act in a certain way, what leads me to this, these are the triggers I was talking about. Together we are discovering what is happening with me. For example, the other time I sent him an email with a few questions about an employee who is getting on my nerves. In a few simple sentences he answered what it is inside me that makes me so nervous about this person. I see in him something that I do not want to be. This is anger, and most of us do not research these triggers, we do not ask ourselves why and we don’t try to identify them. And that is a shame. Well, at least for me this is better, once I understand, once I know how to explain, then I know how to react differently because of my understanding of it.
So you are still working together, do you stay in touch?
Many times I ask for his opinion. He helps me with more difficult questions, those I cannot find the answers to alone.
How did you meet?
Someone brought him to me, to make an agreement for some kind of training. At first we also didn’t find a real connection, I think that deep down I also became afraid of deeper histories.
You are a mechanical engineer, meaning you ‘have both feet firmly on the ground.’ Did you at first have a feeling that his methods are too alternative, intangible, far away from your own views?
I would not say they are alternative; these are just methods we use to live in a world where there is a lot of acting. Basically [the methods] are very simple, but we are afraid to see who we really are and that we will need to change. Fear! When someone brings you a mirror and you actually see yourself, you hear your own words. And most of all, you hear that they sound stupid, so you get scared. It is logical!
What did you see in the mirror?
The worst thing is to look at oneself. Usually we think we need to change others, that there’s nothing wrong with us. It is a good thing that someone is accompanying you while you make these changes, so that you change where you must change and not where you would like to change. There are even some blind spots you don’t see – you don’t see the need for change, because you don’t see the problem!
You are not telling me much about yourself or the changes which you experienced, you formulate your answers pretty generally or philosophically!
It’s not that I don’t want to tell you. The fact is that I have come about the insights I have now through philosophical questions. These insights are very deep. I am only just learning how to get to know the people around me. But if you cannot see yourself, you cannot see others either. Milan has an incredible ability to read a person, even from a photo. I asked a friend of mine, a psychologist, to evaluate a photo of an employee and then told him how Milan had read that person. My psychologist friend told me not to bother him if I know more about that person than he does. Milan has these abilities, he literally scans a person. And this impresses me the most about him.
What does it look like when you two meet?
After we met yesterday, my wife asked me what we were doing. I told her that here and there we spoke a sentence and then there was silence in between.
He guides me with a few questions every two weeks and then lets me think about them. I need to think to get the insight. He could of course tell me everything, and sometimes he does, but certain things I don’t see (yet), I haven’t managed to find certain answers yet. The other time for example, he asked me: ‘What is your role in the family?’ Answers to such questions cannot be found so easily, you have to put some effort into them, work on them.
How long have you been meeting?
Six years.
And you have not gone from personal consultations to the business transformation?
We ended it quickly, people got scared of him and I had a problem because they rebelled – which to me was clear proof of what stage they were at. This is evidence of the level of personal consciousness. I am sure that the people who got scared of him have a huge problem. Coaches often test you and I can pass such tests easily, but there’s no point to that. Milan tests you simply by being present, by observing, and you immediately know at what level you are and what you must do. His approach is appropriate for some higher level of consciousness.
Must an organisation also be mature enough for such a process?
Of course, mature enough to let him come closer. They must trust him, not fear him. This is something we cannot influence. Fear is an unconscious reaction which derives from our deep childhood memories – Milan can tell you more about the transactional analysis himself – but we often don’t want to admit this. Some even don’t know this, many would rather step away, because it is less painful.
Who would you recommend him to?
People who are already ‘deep in shit’ and have nothing more to lose or to those who have a serious desire for progress and personal growth. I tell many people about him, but I don’t know many people who would be willing to undergo such treatment for a longer period of time. People usually escape when it gets too painful.
Talita Taber
He helped me to realise myself.
Talita Taber is a karmic diagnostician, Reiki master and Jyotish astrologer. She is a student of Healer Marjan Ogorevc. She helps her clients recognise the cause of their problems and teaches them how to have a happy and fulfilled life – a quality of life that she herself is living today. But it was not always like that. Some years ago she did not know anything about the alternative methods of healing she works with today. She and her husband had a family construction company together, Taber d.o.o., and she was doing everything there. She mostly did secretarial tasks, but first and foremost she was a housewife.
While the children were still little this situation suited her, but later on it wasn’t enough – though she wasn’t aware of this yet. She was just unhappy, something was missing. Since the business was not doing well and neither was the marriage – which often happens with family businesses – her husband searched for a business restructuring consultant to help them. And he chose Milan Krajnc.
They both had sessions with him – she went through the Sirius Personal Transformation and the husband through both personal and business programmes. ‘My husband and I both had consultations individually, and he spoke with the consultant on the phone many times as well, since during therapy many things come out,’ Talita tells us. Krajnc followed what was going on with each of them for about two to three months. They restructured the company following Krajnc’s advice. ‘We set up things differently while I mainly tried to work on myself during that time. Three years later my husband and I split up. I was aware already at that time that success stories are not always a continuation, an improvement; sometimes a different path must be taken and fundamental changes must be made, because there is no other way. Maybe one even has to start all over again.’
Talita and her husband went their separate ways in their personal and business lives. Of course their expectations before the beginning of consultations were different. She expected to fix her relationship with her husband, not to find herself. Regardless of her different expectations, today she knows that she received so much more than she hoped for. Milan Krajnc showed Talita that she has many potential paths before her and convinced her to explore what she could be doing with her heart. He helped her become familiar with various alternative methods, mostly Reiki, which he had mastered himself. She was interested and found herself in the alternative sciences, even though she had never thought about them before. She continued exploring and educating herself in this direction, first at Hospic, helping the grieving and dying, and then later with Marjan Ogorevc.
‘All this new knowledge and experience has brought me to the decision that I must, both personally and in business, take my own path. I have realised that my husband and I were too different to continue walking the path together. But we accepted the separation well, we agreed on everything together – this is the advantage of having the help of a consultant.” Today she is not only a master of Reiki, but also hosts workshops for Karmic diagnostics, which she learned with Marjan Ogorevc. When doing individual consultations she uses Jyotish as well. She no longer has sessions with Milan, but they talk occasionally because, as Talita says, ‘Every advisor needs an advisor of his or her own and today we can counsel each other.’
Would you recommend him to your friends and clients with regard to the experience you have with him?
‘Milan knows how to holistically connect the personal and business sides of a person and help the person realise him or herself in both areas, which is very important if we want to find happiness. I would recommend him to everyone who has problems in their personal or business lives. I have directed several business people whom I have helped find a way out of their personal problems to go to him for business advice.’
Andreja Janc Koderman
He showed me how to set goals and grow as a person.
Andreja Janc Koderman, a university graduate in Economics with a specialisation in management and a licensed consultant at Profiles International
Today she is head of Human Resource Assistance, an expert in the setup and development of quality human resource management. She started her career in marketing and then transferred to managing human resources. She established what she wants to do only a year or two after her 30th birthday, as she explains laughing. But at that time she was certain: “Management of people is what interested me the most!”
She specialises in the development of human resources and the setup of optimal HR procedures in the company, as well as in the implementation of flexible systematisation schemes, competence modules and a modern approach to the development of people. She is convinced that a well-managed legal-labour department in a company is a stepping stone for further employee management. She advises also on hiring, profiling employees and implementing a motivational system of payment. Since she is aware of how important psychological knowledge is for managing people, she constantly strives to educate herself in this field.
In February 2015 at the World Congress for Developing Human Resources she became the first Slovene to receive the Talent Acquisition Leadership Award, one of the most prestigious awards for managing and developing talents. In February 2017 she was nominated again and in receiving the award for the second time, she confirmed her expertise in the field. She has worked alongside Milan Krajnc in the Sirius company.
‘He was responsible for acquiring business and I was working in the background, executing it,” she explains. “We worked together closely and I am very grateful to him for teaching me how to set goals in life. Goals that are high enough, of course! He also showed me how one can grow personally. All the success that I have made over the years is based on the knowledge he gave me then!’ A complement everyone would want from his/her co-worker or superior. The area of work in which Andreja is involved is today much more specialised.
‘This is what I like doing most. Before, I was focused on processes and on the reorganisation of processes inside companies, now I focus on the development of people and of course the complete system which must be set up: from the legal-labour foundations to the system of management, motivating employees and developing talents. Everything I have done with myself I am now transferring to others.’
Andreja and Milan have discussed further cooperation, but at the moment they are both very busy. Andreja is convinced that in life one must leave all doors open.
‘Milan taught me how to overcome fear, how to overcome yourself – by example. Among other things, he was going to lecture in one of the Baltic countries. He was determined to hold the lecture in English, even though he did not know the language well. He [did not want to] read it, but tell it. I was fascinated and I said: “Well, this guy really has guts!” When I went to India to a world congress it was a huge challenge for me. But I overcame my fears much more easily by knowing that I had a predecessor who has already walked this path.” (laughter) Because Milan had made such extreme leaps in his career, working with him she realised what it means not to set any limitations in life. “If you overcome your fears, you can truly make progress – personally and professionally – all this is connected and intertwined.
‘I have experienced many interesting and inspiring things with him: I remember my first lecture. This was a professional lecture with ‘mobbing’ being the subject. Milan and I agreed that he would have a 45-minute introductory part which I wrote for him, because he didn’t have the time, and then I would speak on the subject of mobbing for the following two hours, and after that he was to hold a three-hour workshop on relationships and conflicts. This was my first lecture organised by the Institute for Business Education and I remember about 40 people registered and all from important companies. I was starting to panic, and anyhow it is always difficult the first time, it was some sort of initiation. The lecture was supposed to start at nine but he wasn’t there. He called me five minutes before and said: “Andreja, I am stuck in traffic, I won’t make it in time, please do my part as well.” So he just threw me into the deep end of the pool. I often think of this situation and wonder if maybe he did this deliberately, because he knew that this was the easiest way for me just to dive in. I have to ask him again! I know that back then he already trusted me but he knew I didn’t trust myself, not yet. I was not sure I could do it yet. I am still grateful he showed me this.’
